The Vapers Den Electronic E-Cigarette Vaping Forum

Health and Legal => European Legal Discussions => Topic started by: Charlie on June 15, 2013, 06:12:30 AM

Title: Question for parliament
Post by: Charlie on June 15, 2013, 06:12:30 AM
Please, if you are motivated enough, contact your local MP, go to see them if you have to. See if we can get the following question asked in Parliament:

Is it true the MHRA has based a public policy health decision on research
done by tobacco giant British American Tobacco?

Is it also true the decision to regulate electronic cigarettes benefits
British American Tobacco and not the roughly one million people who have
switched to electronic cigarettes?

Has the MHRA therefore put the interests of a big tobacco company above the
public health?




I have the BAT research from MHRA if anyone wants to look at it. It looks
like the MHRA have realised their PR boob and taken it down.


Will try to post a couple of screenshots of the documents that 'were' on the MHRA website:
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Charlie on June 15, 2013, 06:13:52 AM
this is a total shambles:

(https://www.thevapersden.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi39.tinypic.com%2Fofyagg.jpg&hash=02fd098cc4f9aa8c563574766585b517)
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Charlie on June 15, 2013, 06:15:55 AM
who was at this meeting?

a lot of the documents posted have been redacted like this

(https://www.thevapersden.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi39.tinypic.com%2F332w9it.jpg&hash=4b3caa98a1d6019f37108d3d89d484a9)
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Lettie22 on June 15, 2013, 06:29:38 AM
That is really strange Charlie!
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Horseman on June 15, 2013, 06:47:01 AM
WOW
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Charlie on June 15, 2013, 08:55:10 AM
What's strange Lettie? except I'm glued to this damn computer when I should be having fun with our children,

Do you mean the edited out bits?

Or was my post a bit weird, you can tell me lol ;)
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: maria d on June 15, 2013, 09:29:50 AM
I also tweeted it Charlie
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Charlie on June 15, 2013, 11:11:17 AM
Thanks Maria, you're a star.

I'm not managing to calm down at all. I think this is OUTRAGEOUS. There should be a Parliamentary enquiry. Or have I lost the plot completely?

Wonder if anyone out there feels the same? Only one way to find out I suppose...
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: danwldr on June 15, 2013, 11:30:32 AM
Charlie, I am in the process of contacting my MP
can you email me the BAT research please? if you need my email again, pm me for it  ;D
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: danwldr on June 15, 2013, 11:43:16 AM
This is what I sent him, I'm not that good with words but I am not sitting on my ass waiting for others to do it

So after this weeks sham of an outcome for electronic cigarettes can you please answer some questions for me.
As my local MP I would really like you to help or put me in contact with someone who could help.
I believe my choice of smoking in a healthy way in a Democratic country has been pulled from underneath me and I am very upset that the MHRA has decided that they can decide how much nicotine I should consume.

(1) Is it true the MHRA has based a public policy health decision on research
done by tobacco giant British American Tobacco?

(2) Is it also true the decision to regulate electronic cigarettes benefits
British American Tobacco and not the roughly one million people who have
switched to electronic cigarettes?

(3) Has the MHRA therefore put the interests of a big tobacco company above the
public health?

Please answer these question for me as me and many others would like to know the answers.

Many thanks
Daniel Walder
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Charlie on June 15, 2013, 11:51:41 AM
*&*~##ing brilliant Dan! So bloody good it's triggered a turrets outburst.

Sending the documents now
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: danwldr on June 15, 2013, 01:19:00 PM
*&*~##ing brilliant Dan! So bloody good it's triggered a turrets outburst.

Sending the documents now
Thanks mate, will have a read through them tomorrow :)
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: maria d on June 15, 2013, 01:27:57 PM
Love it Dan , we need to gut punch those  -T-.

Very well said.
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Charlie on June 15, 2013, 03:19:29 PM
From latest "Smoking in England" survey sponsored by Department of Health and Cancer Research http://www.smokinginengland.info/

(https://www.thevapersden.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.tinypic.com%2F104i2py.jpg&hash=4e3c49696cc176d855f642d2adbad335)

Another one to show your MP

Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Lettie22 on June 15, 2013, 05:10:24 PM
What's strange Lettie? except I'm glued to this damn computer when I should be having fun with our children,

Do you mean the edited out bits?

Or was my post a bit weird, you can tell me lol ;)

Why they would redact the stuff!   
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: cath77 on June 16, 2013, 09:30:21 AM
Aparantly the documents have been removed again >:(
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: danwldr on June 16, 2013, 09:33:31 AM
Aparantly the documents have been removed again >:(
aliens  >:(
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: cath77 on June 16, 2013, 10:57:04 AM
Just found out on Twitter, MHRA claim that ECITA asked for redaction, total lies!!! {W}
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Charlie on June 16, 2013, 06:07:44 PM
Katherine Devlin has posted unredacted copies of all ECITAs submissions. it is very odd.

here's an interesting screenshot from recent research

(https://www.thevapersden.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.tinypic.com%2F2q85453.jpg&hash=6e814d6de91f935db8ecd4340df94365)
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Charlie on June 16, 2013, 06:11:08 PM
how do you get from a chart like this to telling the general public eCigs are a dangerous option. Somebody wake me please, it has to be a dream
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: cath77 on June 16, 2013, 06:43:01 PM
Quite easy when most of them are in bed with big pharma...
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Lordy on June 17, 2013, 06:08:13 AM
Something struck me as I was moving the umpteenth box up 3 flights of stairs yesterday:

E-Cigs vs GM Foods.

E-cigs... around approx. 10 years. All research conducted shows vastly improved safety versus traditional tobacco products.
Gov't response: "Nowhere near enough research, we need to move to remove them from the market" (paraphrase).

GM Foods... around approx 10 years. All research conducted shows huge dangers - cancer-infested rats, destroyed stomach tissue etc.
Gov't response: "Thorough tests show that these ARE safe and we need to move to allow their passage into the market"

 ???
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Charlie on June 17, 2013, 07:13:50 AM
Good point Lordy.


Just worked out how to tweet journos that covered the MHRA announcement, starting with Helen Bigs at bbc:

"Hi Helen, did you notice MHRA decision last week was based on research by BAT? Who benefits from this decision. Public interest?"

Anyone that can tweet back at the journos who ran the announcement, please please do so.
Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Charlie on June 19, 2013, 05:33:18 AM
Points to keep pushing with MPs, MEPs, media etc

1) MHRA explicitly used research by BT to make a public health decision, breaching the WHO guidelines* (see below).

2) Will this decision be scrutinized by outside agencies?

3) Why were the views of 1200 users of electronic cigarettes that gave their views in the MHRA consultation that nicotine should not be regulated as a medicine were ignored? In who's interest was this decision made?

3) Do you know the story of former EU health commissioner John Dalli's resignation? http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1d13bb8a-17b1-11e2-9530-00144feabdc0.html


Here's what the World Health Authority has to say on the subject:


21. The tobacco industry should not be a partner in any initiative linked to setting or
implementing public health policies, given that its interests are in direct conflict with the
goals of public health.



Guidelines for implementation of Article 5.3 of the
WHO Framework Convention on Tobacco Control
on the protection of public health policies
with respect to tobacco control from commercial
and other vested interests of the tobacco industry

download the full WHO document here:

http://www.who.int/fctc/guidelines/article_5_3.pdf


I filed a press commission complaint against the Scottish Herald yesterday, took about ten minutes.

Information coming out all the time. We need to keep ontop of it! The PR damage being done is huge. We can't sit around while they print these lies.

Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Lordy on June 19, 2013, 05:51:37 AM
Charlie, could you please tell us how to complain to the IPCC? (press, not police)!

Title: Re: Question for parliament
Post by: Charlie on June 20, 2013, 02:27:54 PM
click away at:

http://www.pcc.org.uk/complaints/makingacomplaint.html

took me about 10 minutes, including screenshots and links to the article. You should get a confirmation email.